Month: June 2022

Danmei Donghua Part 1: Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

On June 27, 2022

Hello, everyone! I hope you’re all doing well and enjoying summer~ I’m certainly having a time and a half because as soon as it became summer, my home decided that it was going to go from wet and cold to blazing hot, and now I’m afraid it’ll be as intense a heat wave as last year… Such high temperatures really aren’t natural in my part of the world, but what can you do when it’s global warming…

And ah, I’m shaking my fist at the fact that this blog entry is once again late ahaha. Unfortunately last week, while I did arrive home while it was still the weekend, I had just been on a giant road trip and I was way too tired to do much else besides sleep. It is fun though because I attended my younger brother’s convocation (his graduation ceremony), and I’ll be off to attend my own in just a few weeks! It’s pretty funny how he’s younger than me, yet he gets to have his first, since mine was delayed by COVID. Also, almost forgot to mention, but my brother’s convocation was actually on my birthday this year! Kind of amusing since when he graduated from high school, it was also basically on my birthday. 😆

Anyway, that’s not what we’re here to talk about! What we are here to talk about is more danmei! I’ve talked already about the validity of Asian queer content even if it’s not as wholesome by western values and I’ve also talked about queer-coding in Chinese media that features LGBTQ+ ships (whether they’re the main focus or not).

This time, we are going to talk solely about just danmei, where it’s supposed to be LGBTQ+-centric!

Of course, there are countless danmei novels out there now, and I can’t claim to be an expert on all of them. There’s some really passionate fans out there who’ve read hundreds of these novels, but I’ve actually only had the time to read a few… I hope to read more in the future, but a lot happens in life and it can be hard finding good translations sometimes! Plus, you guys know me… My speciality lies in donghua more so than danmei, as much as I love both.

So uh. I guess now’s as perfect a time as any to discuss some danmei donghua, and then if we have time, I’ll include some other danmei that I know are good!

We’ll start off with three classics: the animated adaptations of Mo Xiang Tong Xiu works (mostly because if I don’t include them, I’ll 100% be worthy of the label of a fake fan haha)!:

Mo Dao Zu Shi (The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation):

*Mo Dao Zu Shi*‘s main couple, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve heard of this one already. I’ve discussed this before, but this is one of three works by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, and it was one of the first donghua to get popular outside of China. I have to commend its studio, BC May. They were a major player in building donghua’s reputation, considering both Mo Dao Zu Shi and Quan Zhi Gao Shou (The King’s Avatar) were donghua they worked on that happened to go viral in 2017-2018.

Mo Dao Zu Shi focuses on the titular grandmaster of demonic cultivation, Wei Wuxian, whose birth name is Wei Ying, after he is called back to the world of the living by Mo Xuanyu, who wishes him to get revenge on the family that has mistreated him his whole life… So yes, one of the first lines of this novel—which is also one of the first lines of the donghua—is that Wei Wuxian has died, a fact that amusingly shocks a number of newcomers to the series ahaha. But after he is revived, Wei Wuxian is confronted by numerous factors of his past, including the righteous Lan Wangji—birth name Lan Zhan—whom Wei Wuxian never really seemed to get along with too well.

As a demonic cultivator, Wei Wuxian immediately captures the attention of other cultivators, as many people remain in fear of his return from the grave, despite the fact he would’ve happily stayed dead if he could. This leads to him and Lan Wangji uncovering various secrets of their past, creating havoc in the cultivation world. It’s a story of intrigue, violence, forgiveness, change, war, and more—and it’s not one I’ll be reviewing in depth. Not right now, anyway. Mo Dao Zu Shi is a complex, multi-faceted story, and it’s far too intricate for me to tackle in what is essentially a listicle.

The one thing about its donghua adaptation is that it is gorgeous. The animation continuously improves throughout its three seasons, and the action is incredibly fluid. You may also notice a specialty of BC May’s, which is 3D backgrounds—or backgrounds with 3D elements—with 2D characters, and for the most part, they blend pretty well here, and the results are quite pretty. While I will say there is a bit of an issue with same-face syndrome (an issue that can occasionally plague anime art styles and is actually a weakness of the studio BC May in almost all their works), the character designs really are quite gorgeous—and now with so many different adaptations of Mo Dao Zu Shi, also iconic. With the donghua’s influence, Mo Dao Zu Shi has quite consistent designs that the fandom can draw on (hehe, pun not entirely intended) for fan art.

Many people have complained that Mo Dao Zu Shi is one of the subtler queer-coded donghua out there, especially considering the bigger audacity of Tian Guan Ci Fu, but I’ve always found it to nevertheless do a good job of depicting the main ship’s growing feelings for one another. Plus, season one more so covered Wei Wuxian’s past life and his growth into the Yiling Patriarch, so it makes sense that the romance was a lot more subdued at first. BC May did really up the ante in season 3 though, and fans have noted just how much more romantic it got, what with the adaptations of iconic scenes (no spoilers though!) like drunk Lan Wangji.

Because season 3 was its last season, the show did have to rush to adapt the rest of Mo Dao Zu Shi’s story, including the Yi City arc, one of its angstier stories. The rushedness does indeed show in the last few episodes as we hurtle towards the climax, but despite that weakness, BC May did a good job adapting it overall. For those who’ve watched the donghua already and would like to know my thoughts on the Yi City arc, you can read them in this Twitter thread here (a thread I may one day turn into a blog entry too haha, mostly because I really do find Xue Yang to be such a fascinating character).

The donghua did turn the novel’s timeline into something more linear, but I view it to this day as a pretty strong adaptation. Plus I’ll always have a soft spot for it, as it’s one of the first donghua that ever got me into this crazy world of donghua and danmei. The series even got a bonus chibi series in the form of Mo Dao Zu Shi Q (because “q” essentially captures the term “chibi” and “cute” in Chinese), which both had more visibly romantic undertones and some cute comedy and fluffy moments with all the characters getting along, serving as a balm to the knives of the main series—though beware, there are still a few knives hidden in there!

Of course, if you ever want a more accurate—and thus explicit—adaptation of Mo Dao Zu Shi, I must recommend the audio drama, which you can find on MaoEr FM. The manhua is also quite good, as it has less censorship than the donghua, but some censorship is there. That being said, you can totally find a few uncensored pages on Twitter~ *wink wink* If you’d like a different visual adaptation that’s still solid in quality—and arguably a more expansive, less fast-paced experience than the donghua—then you can try the live-action drama version, under the name Chen Qing Ling (The Untamed). This version does change things even more, but it has its merits and its fans!

In fact, it’s actually the third anniversary of The Untamed—it released on June 27—so it is truly a good time for me to be talking about this series! So happy third anniversary, The Untamed! 😆

Oh, and the cover of the English translation of Mo Dao Zu Shi volume 3 was just recently released, so that’s good too (even more good because Seven Seas finally recognized the union its workers have formed!).

The cover of volume 3 of *Mo Dao Zu Shi*‘s English translation, newly released~

Tian Guan Ci Fu (Heaven’s Official Blessing):

*Tian Guan Ci Fu*‘s main couple, Hua Cheng and Xie Lian.

Wow okay the last one got way too long, so this one should be a lot shorter, because I want to talk about more than just these three tonight. This shouldn’t be too hard of a feat though, as admittedly… I have yet to read Tian Guan Ci Fu. 😅

I know, I know! It makes me seem like such a fake Mo Xiang Tong Xiu fan, but forgive me… I have been too busy being plagued by other brain rots to currently pick up the behemoth that is Tian Guan Ci Fu, but I swear I will one day! Plus I can promise you there’s way more fans out there than you may expect that have yet to read all three of Mo Xiang Tong Xiu’s works, and as someone who has 2/3 read, at least I’m not too far behind! I can tell you that I know it’s another story full of complex themes, with war, intrigue, questions against authority, themes of redemption, true love, and more, and that many, many people love this novel.

The donghua itself is gorgeous. It has such fluid animation, with a perhaps softer look than that of Mo Dao Zu Shi. It opens with Xie Lian ascending to the heavens…for the third time. While eight hundred years ago, he was a powerful and beloved god, he is now a humble, scrap-collecting god trying to maintain his temple. But this changes when he seems to catch the interest of the Crimson Rain-Sought Flower Hua Cheng, a feared Ghost King. Soon after, he meets a youth named San Lang, and the duo end up on an adventure that will reveal mysteries of their past.

So yeah, it definitely sounds interesting, right? And I can promise you it is! Unlike Mo Dao Zu Shi, Tian Guan Ci Fu has only finished its first season so far, so it’s a good time to hop into the fandom to check it out! As I mentioned while discussing Mo Dao Zu Shi, Tian Guan Ci Fu gets a lot more daring with how it depicts its main couple: they share numerous cute moments that include some touchy-feely things in both the literal (skin-on-skin contact! *gasp*) and the metaphorical (touching our emotions! *double gasp*) sense.

It’s a very pretty donghua, and I definitely recommend checking it out! Similarly, the manhua is even more gorgeous, drawn in insane detail by STARember. I mean, just look at it! Isn’t it crazy how pretty it is!?:

There’s also an upcoming live-action adaptation and I heard stirrings about an audio drama adaptation? So definitely plenty to look forward to if you are—or are interested in becoming—a Tian Guan Ci Fu fan!

Chuan Shu Zijiu Zhinan (Scumbag System) aka Ren Zha Fanpai Zijiu Xitong (Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System):

I’m…just realizing that this is the only adaptation that has a different name from its novel counterpart lmao. But yeah, last but not least, here’s Chuan Shu! Based on Mo Xiang Tong Xiu’s first novel, Chuan Shu is what is commonly called a transmigraton story in Chinese fandoms (or an isekai for Japanese fandoms)—where the main character, Shen Yuan, ends up transmigrating into a novel as the titular scum villain, Shen Qingqiu. It’s a bit of a satire, meaning it has plenty of comedy. For example, the novel Shen Yuan got transmigrated into is a stallion novel—a male power fantasy where the overpowered protagonist beats everyone and gets all the ladies. This novel is one that Shen Yuan followed faithfully despite hating on it, and when it ends, he is so enraged he dies (how he dies varies from telling to telling, but it usually involves food of some kind haha. In Chuan Shu, he seemingly chokes on a bao). Now he has to use his knowledge to survive and avoid the scum villain Shen Qingqiu’s fate of being turned into a human stick by Luo Binghe…but it’s not as simple as he hopes. There’s the System—a common trope in transmigration stories—that prevents him from acting OOC (out-of-character) and who gives him missions to better the storyline, including the dreaded, important scene of Shen Qingqiu being forced to betray Luo Binghe and throw him down into the horrible Endless Abyss, which lies between the Demon and Human Realms. So as Shen Qingqiu, Shen Yuan has to gain Luo Binghe’s favour through more subtle means, and well…considering this is a danmei featuring a gay relationship…you can probably tell that things don’t exactly go according to his plan haha.

If any of you have been on my Twitter for even ten seconds, you must know that I love Scum Villain so so much. I’ve ranted a lot about why I love Luo Binghe as a character and why I think Shen Qingqiu makes for such a subversion-of-expectations type of protagonist, but also why I enjoy their dynamic—where the aloof master is actually forever eternally screaming and cursing inside while the powerful and scary Demon Lord is willing to round pleading, weeping puppy dog eyes on his lover. It’s just such a fun ship, and as it’s been a while since I’ve rambled about my love for them, hopefully I’ll get to doing so again in a future blog entry!

For now though, let’s talk the donghua: this the only one out of the three Mo Xiang Tong Xiu novels that got animated using CGI, and I have to say…I’m not surprised. Really, it feels like one of those cosmic fate situations where it’s just like, “Ah, of course it was Scum Villain that got the 3D animation treatment. Of course.” That’s not to say that the CGI is awful! You can kind of tell it’s a bit cheaply made at times, but it has its strengths, and truthfully speaking, China actually enjoys their 3D animation quite a bit, unlike Japan, and for the most part, these series look pretty good! Unlike Japanese 3D animation, where fans complain about the quality, especially when it is both cheap and fails in its attempt to imitate a 2D anime art style, Chinese 3D animation goes for a more realistic look. Even then, various studios have their own styles, and I’d recommend numerous series—should probably actually write a blog entry about CGI donghua sometime haha. Getting back to Chuan Shu though, I have to say… The main characters really got the luxury treatment~

Shen Qingqiu is unfairly beautiful and Luo Binghe is too—although what I really love this donghua for is its design for little baby Luo Binghe, who I—and many fans—lovingly call Bunhe. He’s just…so, so, sooooo cute. Look at his puppy dog eyes!! I literally have a whole Twitter thread of just Bunhe screenshots oh my god. I even have a reputation among my friends of crying on voice call because I see Bunhe—that’s how you know I love him ahaha.

Shen Qingqiu from *Chuan Shu*. Gif is by ydotome on Tumblr!

Young Luo Binghe from *Chuan Shu*. Gif is by k1201a on Tumblr!

Overall, Chuan Shu is a pretty faithful adaptation! We Scum Villain fans love it, and even if you’re not a Scum Villain fan, I’d nonetheless argue it’s a series of solid quality that can be enjoyed. It’s also helped by the stellar voice actors—did you know that characters such as Sha Hualing and the System share voices with Genshin Impact characters!? Of course though, the strongest of them all are the main characters—Shen Dawei has such a good range as both young, innocent Luo Binghe and older, darker Demon Lord Luo Binghe, and Wu Lei as Shen Qingqiu… I mean, do I even need to say anything!? Wu Lei is just an amazing voice actor who emotes so well. He similarly has an amazing range as Shen Dawei, as you can see by his professional shizun voice and his internal screaming voice. But also because he voices Yan Wushi of Qian Qiu (another danmei I’ll talk about in a bit), and in that one he uses both a powerful, sultry, deep, flirtatious, cocky voice and a sweet, innocent, higher-pitched, youthful voice, so really, his range is insane. You can find more of their voice work in this Chuan Shu and MaoEr FM collaboration, which I translated here. This collaboration includes numerous scenes and some interviews, and I have to say…they show that romance even more hehe (because remember, audio dramas are a lot less censored!).

But okay, this is starting to get long again, so I’ll try to wrap it up real quick: I’ve already mentioned how funny it is that of course Scum Villain got the 3D animation treatment, and that’s mostly because Scum Villain fans are some of the most starved fans out there. We had a manhua, but it got shut down due to controversy surrounding one of the manhua studio’s workers (who wasn’t even working on the Scum Villain manhua, by the way!). Then our donghua is plagued with a few financial issues, and besides a singular trailer and some holiday celebratory art/posts early on after the first season ended, it has been very, very quiet. It doesn’t help that before the first season, it was similarly quiet, with only the spinning character models to keep fans company, so fans joked Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe were “stuck in the microwave.”

In fact, there’s actually a funny story surrounding the models too. In the first trailer, the characters were less beautiful and more traditionally masculine, and fans complained so much that the studio redesigned them, which is how we got regally beautiful Shen Qingqiu and pretty boy Luo Binghe today. I like to joke that they probably realized they needed to hire a female character designer to better capture what the mostly female fanbase was expecting ahaha.

Shen Qingqiu’s original design in *Chuan Shu*. Gif is by lansizhuis on Tumblr!

Continuing on about Scum Villain’s bad luck, unlike Mo Dao Zu Shi and Tian Guan Ci Fu, not only do we not have a manhua, we also don’t have any live-action drama adaptations like they do. In fact, Scum Villain sort of has a…rip-off (?) live-action version, as in there’s a cheaply-made web-drama series with a very similar premise to Scum Villain—even down to the fact one of the characters has a red mark on his forehead and he’s going after his master. Scum Villain fans also don’t have an audio drama—the closest thing is the Chuan Shu and MaoEr FM collaboration, but we did have a fan audio drama…that from what I know, seems to have been taken down. And that’s why Scum Villain fans are starving the most out of all of the Mo Xiang Tong Xiu fandoms. 😔

Conclusion:

Okay, wow, this got way too long for a singular blog entry, and it’s already past Sunday as a result. If I were to continue discussing danmei donghua the way I originally intended to, this entry would be way too long, and it would also be unfair because the other series would get shorter snippets than I’ve written for the Mo Xiang Tong Xiu donghua here. Considering I’m really tired, I guess I’ll stop here for tonight and just label this as Part 1!

In Part 2, I’ll touch on other animated series, some of which are also pretty popular, even if not to Mo Xiang Tong Xiu’s extent (such as Qian Qiu, Tianbao Fuyao Lu…) and some more underrated ones (such as Jie Yao, Wo Kai Dongwuyuan Naxie Nian…). For now though, I leave you with this Google Slides my friend Joel made about danmei, which includes info on various novels. I might try to touch more on danmei novels some day, but for now this will have to do.

PS: I’m not sure when I’ll be able to update my blog again, since I’ll be away for my convocation soon, and we might go on another road trip as a result, the way we did for my brother’s convocation. It’ll have to be seen, depending on whether I bring my laptop with me or not!

PPS: I’m excited because I’ll finally be watching Everything Everywhere All at Once very soon! As a Canadian-born-Chinese, I’m ready for that film to just absolutely fuck me up—pardon my language haha—and hopefully I’ll get to write a blog entry on it soon (speaking of, I should also write one on Turning Red…), so definitely lots of future blog entries I hope to write, which I suppose is a good thing! 🙈💕

Anyway, before June ends, I’m wishing you all happy Pride one last time~ 🌈

China Can’t Really Queerbait—Here’s Why:

By Kookie

On June 13, 2022

In Cnovels, Danmei/Baihe, Donghua, Manhua, Personal

It’s still June and still Pride and I remembered to post this, as promised in the last blog entry, so here we are! This is an older post from my Tumblr that has since been edited and copied and pasted onto my blog, but hey, it remains more than relevant haha.

Basically, the thing is…sometimes I forget people aren’t used to consuming Chinese media like I am so they expect any bl to be explicit.

A while ago, someone referred to Childe and Zhongli as potential “queerbaiting” to me and I had to pause for a moment and consider this. I always take things in stride when it comes to what is called “queerbaiting” in Chinese media because we don’t know how strict censors are (sometimes boys’ love seems mostly okay, sometimes it seems a little less okay, sometimes it seems okay as long as it’s not “anti-government”… Oh, and the topic of censorship is a whole ’nother complex discussion due to it happening because China rebuilt itself with all-new policies and was also westernized after suffering under colonization…).

Zhongli and Childe from *Genshin Impact*.

This also isn’t the first time I’ve seen people call Chinese media featuring characters that can be viewed as gay queerbaiting, which is why the comment about Zhongli and Childe made me hesitate. Like I can’t objectively tell you if some of these series with boys’ love are queerbaiting, because in many ways…Chinese creators can’t even afford to queerbait, due to censorship. That’s why when these works contain potential gay subtext, is it really queerbaiting, when it arguably actually challenges censors by dropping hints that try to make potential queerness more visible and not less, the way actual queerbaiting does? And in many ways, a lot of Chinese media that drop these hints are inviting their audiences to take it as canon even if they can’t explicitly say it out loud—so again, is it really queerbaiting then?

Basically, with all this in mind, China does queer-coding, not queerbaiting.

Take Spirit Pact, for example, one of the other works I’ve seen get labelled as “queerbaiting.” The male leads kiss to give each other power or exchange vows, but the manhua’s creator said it’s “not necessarily because they’re in love.” There was debate this is queerbaiting, but could the creator just be avoiding trouble with censors? The very fact that the male leads kiss so much and care so much about one another suggests intent, despite the author’s comment.

Duanmu Xi and Yang Jinghua from *Spirit Pact*.

Now what about Childe and Zhongli? Why were people suddenly discussing them and queerbaiting? Well, Genshin went ahead and did a thing and had Zhongli gift Childe fenghuang chopsticks. A Chinese game using a traditional Chinese theme for an object exchanged between two men that represents unity, harmony, and marriage? Some Chinese people have pointed out that that seems intentional, as symbolism is extremely important to Chinese culture. 😆

And I mean, we all remember The Untamed and how Wangxian exchanged loving glances, touched each other constantly, basically got married (through symbolism of the forehead ribbon and the exchanging of chickens), calling each other a term that could mean either “life-long confidant” or “soulmate” and so on.

We never got a canonical scene where they kissed or said “I love you,” but we can see the intent there. We know what they’re saying. The same applies for the Mo Dao Zu Shi donghua. The manhua is more obvious about it, but they do cut kiss and sex scenes… But since it appears it was nonetheless drawn, we can take that as it having still happened. And Mo Dao Zu Shi Q takes this further than the regular donghua too because the censors are more lax on them.

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji in specifically their *Mo Dao Zu Shi Q* adaptation.

And yes. They are based on a danmei novel (Mo Dao Zu Shi, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation), so it’s a little different from Genshin Impact, but even then, it’s not fair to label Chinese media as queerbaiting because whether it will ever be explicitly canon or not, Chinese creators including suggestions of queer relationships is more risky for them than if they didn’t. That’s why there’s quite a few Chinese works out there that feature “vibes” of gay ships, even if they will never be canon. And if you consume as much Chinese media as me, you can usually tell when a team/author is intentionally using symbolism to suggest a canon couple, often with a traditional Chinese theme. 👀

The animated movie Jiang Ziya used language that suggested Shen Gongbao and Jiang Ziya could be a couple, but it was never explicit. But hell, they basically adopt a daughter! I interpreted them as a couple but didn’t see it as fully intentional or canon until talking to a good friend of mine whose Chinese is better than mine. There were more hints and reasons to believe they cared about each other in that way, so we concluded it was way more obvious than we would’ve thought at first glance. And that’s kind of how China does it when the main focus of a story isn’t bl but there’s a potentially bl couple.

Shen Gongbao and Jiang Ziya from *Jiang Ziya*. Jiang Ziya is protecting Shen Gongbao in an event that happens long before the movie’s main plot, when the two have yet to truly know each other.

And even when there are censors, there have been a variety of ways Chinese media has skirted censors in the past. Like in Beryl and Sapphire, we get the “survivor’s cut” where things are censored and the “director’s cut” where things aren’t censored (so characters can hug, kiss, confess, cuddle, and so on). And Beryl and Sapphire, while originally designed by the author as two males, are designed so they can be in any story (bl or not) and were originally drawn in the comic as stick figures so you could imagine their gender as whatever you want (so they could even be girls’ love if you so desire!).

Robo-Beryl, Beryl, and Sapphire (all characters from one specific arc) of *Beryl and Sapphire*.

Now contrast that to Hualian from the Tian Guan Ci Fu donghua, where things are so obvious and it’s even gayer than the novel in some areas. People keep questioning how they got it past censors, and that makes me rethink how I view Chinese censors. However strict they truly are, Chinese media is very purposeful in how they depict boys’ love couples.

Promotional art from Bilibili of Xie Lian and Hua Cheng from *Tian Guan Ci Fu*.

So I don’t really think about whether something is queerbaiting or explicitly canon in Chinese media. I basically see something that can be read as bl through symbolism/language/metaphor and I see that as intentional. The creators are letting you choose how you want to read it, and you may never get the kiss you want, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t “canon.” There’s often intent behind it, and because of varying levels of censorship, I take the idea of “queerbaiting” in Chinese media with a grain of salt.

For example, Kaeya and Diluc use a term in Chinese very similar to sworn brothers, which can be romantic in Chinese. With modern day China, creators often use “sworn brotherhood” as a way to depict romance and skirt censors. And yes, I know the English translation labels them as two adopted brothers, and if that’s the interpretation you want to go with, that is also okay (just please don’t label Asian fans as problematic when they do ship them—and please please please don’t label all of Chinese culture as problematic for having this sworn brotherhood concept, the way some people have done)! But as I’ve confirmed with multiple native Chinese speakers, the original Chinese language used is not exactly family-oriented, and that can be viewed as intentional (that’s why you see some Chinese fans ship Diluc and Kaeya while the western fandom views it as incest). Language is complex! There’s no clean, clear-cut answer.

Boys’ love is popular in China, but it’s not always the main focus of every series (you know, sometimes the queer-coding is done just for side ships). We could say You Shou Yan features intentional queer-coding with Sibuxiang x Tony/Tuye or Fei Ren Zai and All Saints Street feature the intent of potential bl with Yangjian x Guanyin and Nick x Lynn respectively; or Are You OK is boys’ love even if the story doesn’t focus entirely on that but it does feature more than one boys’ love couple; or No Doubt in Us contains boys’ love because despite the main couple being straight, there is an obviously suggested side ship that is gay; or Wo Jia Dashixiong Naozi You Keng is boys’ love because it features guys crushing on other guys and sharing moments, even though the manhua isn’t about that boys’ love romance explicitly; or see Nezha as having boys’ love potential because of how it interprets the Nezha and Ao Bing relationship (to the point of even changing the depiction of the relationship between Ao Bing and Nezha from the 1979 animated movie to be more domestic rather than as enemies); or even say Hoyoverse’s other game, Honkai Impact, arguably intentionally features some girls’ love too.

Top: an episode from *Cooking With Valkyries* that is suggestive of girls’ love.
Left: Feng Ling’er and Bai Yuxiu from *Feng Ling Yu Xiu*, which is suggestive of girls’ love.
Right: Gongchang Sheng and Dongfang Xianyun from *Wo Jia Dashixiong Naozi You Keng*, which is suggestive of boys’ love.

Maybe it’s just because I identify as ace and I don’t mind if there’s no signs of sex scenes and I’ve even grown accustomed to not seeing kisses. I love seeing other signs of love—like protecting your partner, being their sugar daddy, hanging out with them a lot, and all that jazz. If there’s a kiss, great! If not, that’s fine too because there are other things to suggest they’re canon.

Mo Ran and Chu Wanning from *Erha he ta de bao mao shizun*.

So when Chinese media give you hints such as with Zhongli and Childe, are they queerbaiting? I don’t personally think so. No Chinese creator is purposefully preying on queer audiences using the carrot and string method simply because they can’t afford to. When a Chinese creator gives you a hint of a queer ship, it’s them doing that in spite of censorship, which makes the content suggestive of intent, even if they can’t follow through with making it canon. In comparison, when western media gives a hint of a queer ship but doesn’t follow through with making it canon, that has far more possibility of being queerbaiting because they usually can afford to make something visibily queer and are actively choosing not to, to prey on queer audiences’ desires for queer content. Of course, this isn’t always the case because western media still censors queer content as well, but depending on the context, western creators can afford to queerbait far more than Chinese creators. For example, studios such as Disney are far more likely to do queerbaiting, as seen with their random claims that random characters are gay (like that policewoman from Onward), despite such a detail barely being prominent enough to warrant celebration.

So back to Childe and Zhongli. What’s their deal?

Well, whatever it is, I can definitely tell you it isn’t queerbaiting. If it is meant to suggest marriage, then those fenghuang chopsticks are as good a sign of canon as any. If they aren’t, then they at least suggest harmony in unity. Either way, Genshin doesn’t have to confirm it, because they can’t. The most they can do is drop symbols and hints like this and let their users interpret it however they want.

But hey, “being together” is arguably as good as any reason for someone to ship something, and this applies to all Chinese media that has the boys’ love on the sidelines. Them dropping such a hint is a good thing, because while it isn’t the main focus, these creators never had to include them, and including such hints is more difficult for them than just pretending gay people don’t exist. Will these types of media ever say that they have actual gay characters who may be in love out loud? I guess not, but we have to acknowledge the context that they are still from China and there are censors for them to deal with.

And with media like this, if you don’t want Childe and Zhongli to be canon, that’s totally okay too! I mean…it is also a game, and games—even more than other mediums—can be interpreted in various ways simply due to the fact that every user’s experience differs.

For the other Chinese media that suggest boys’ love, you can also interpret it as non-gay if you want to (some, such as No Doubt in Us, are far more obvious about it than others, such as All Saints Street).

In the end, love is love—and that includes whether there’s a kiss or not, when the author/team intends it and lets you interpret it any which way, you can interpret their symbols as signs of how canon your two favourite characters are!

Oh, and as a finishing thought, here’s a list of donghua recommendations for anyone who wants to check some of these out! I include a lot of good donghua with pictures, descriptions, and links to where to watch. 🥰

From left to right, top to bottom:
Top: Jiang Yuduo and Cheng Ke from *Jie Yao*.
Bottom Left: Prince Yu and Li Ke from *Are You OK*.
Bottom Right: Luya and Duan Jiaze from *Those Years I Opened a Zoo*.

Being Too Queer Even for the Queer: What’s the Deal With People’s Views of Asian Boys’ Love? (ft Heartstopper)

By Kookie

On June 6, 2022

In Cnovels, Danmei/Baihe, Personal

Guess who remembered their blog? 😅

It really can be difficult running so many accounts at once, and while I often have ideas for blog entries (eg on Mother’s Day I would’ve been happy evaluating some mother characters in donghua), it’s easy to get overwhelmed or distracted or simply not want to do something because you feel like you have to.

But here’s something I’ve been meaning to post for a while; this was originally a thread I made in response to some news in the world of boys’ love: a certain comment by Alice Oseman, the creator of Heartstopper, which is now a hit show on Netflix, went kind of viral for being—in some ways—an unfair criticism on popular aspects of the Asian boys’ love genre.

Alice Oseman’s comment on Heartstopper that mentions “not describing it as ‘yaoi’ or ‘bl'” which calls them fetishistic and has sparked outrage.

The Comment Reads as Follows:

Yup, no explicit sex in this comic - the characters are teenagers so it's just not appropriate, and even if they weren't, I'd have no interest in drawing that. I wouldn't describe this comic as 'yaoi' or even 'BL' - they're genres of comic that tend to fetishise and eroticise queer men in a really bad way. This comic is just a romance between two boys and a coming-of-age story!

This comment elicited an extremely divided response, but numerous Asians expressed frustration or even outrage at the implications that Asian creations prominently featuring gay relationships are once again being written off as just fetishistic and problematic and nothing more. This kind of criticism isn’t anything new and can more than certainly hold truth to it, but as an (East) Asian myself, I get the frustration as well. And hey, while the controversy has mostly blown over, it is Pride month (happy Pride, by the way! I have another post on introducing queer content in Chinese media that I’ll try to post next week~ 🌈), so it seems as good a time as any to post this!

I remain nearly as tired as when I first wrote these tweets, but the thread ended up conveying things I continue to feel, so I thought I’d compile them here—with new additional thoughts—as a blog entry. Having seen people call Oseman out for the rather dismissive tone she adopted towards yaoi and boys’ love, I have to agree her words lack nuance.

There’s the obvious point we can get out of the way first: despite her seemingly attempting to distance her work from similar stories made by women that focus on a gay relationship, it still makes sense by definition for her work to fall under the label of “bl”—because this label just means “boys’ love.” Ignoring all the connotations about genre tropes and target audiences, Heartstopper is still boys’ love.

Now I know people will say “but she’s just clarifying it doesn’t contain the problematic fetishization of gay men that works associated with yaoi/boys’ love have!” But then you have to consider cultural context. Why is it that “yaoi” and “boys’ love,” types of work that bring to mind Asian media, are the way they are—that they contain things we, in the west, view as “problematic fetishization”?

It’s not a surprise these terms come from Asian media, where nations are perhaps somewhat more conservative towards the LGBTQ+ community. In some ways, the west is known for being “more progressive,” in the sense that less people have to feel like their life is in danger if they come out. We can thus see more visible and out queer authors tell authentic queer works without worry of persecution (of course this within itself isn’t entirely true, as many creators continue to have to fight for their works to even contain queer content, as seen by Disney asking shows such as Gravity Falls to remove visible queer couples, as well as calling The Owl House content they don’t view as fitting in under the Disney label. Additionally, to this day, you can see people get up-in-arms at the smallest things that can be read as queer. But for the most part, being blatantly queer has become more socially acceptable in the west).

So yes, occasionally it will seem like western queer stories target queer audiences while Asian queer stories target straight girls. But that doesn’t mean Asian stories only fetishize gay men.

As many people have happily pointed out, there are plenty of nuanced depictions of gay life in manga and more, and it can be just as authentic as the western stories. Additionally, even regarding the “more problematic” gay content, they can nevertheless serve as meaningful visibility. After all, there are Asian nations where a queer presence in media hasn’t yet been normalized. So for Asians who identify as queer, these stories can mean a lot to them, even if they aren’t as “pure” as western queer content.

Asian queer works also aren’t exclusive to being created by straight women. For example, you wouldn’t expect modern China to have any out queer authors, yet there exists Fei Tian Ye Xiang, a gay man writing danmei (Chinese boys’ love/yaoi). Is his content going to be as “wholesome” or as “pure” as western queer stories (which many people nowadays assume mean “this work will not have sex and will only depict a healthy, happy gay couple”)? Maybe not. But does it really have to be???

Fei Tian Ye Xiang, author of *Tianbao Fuyao Lu* and *Dinghai Fusheng Lu*, both danmei works (Chinese boys’ love).

The first thing to ask is why his type of work automatically gets labelled “less good” than a queer story written by somebody in the west? Because, as we can see with all these debates about fetishization and what makes for good representation and wholesome home media, people have preconceived notions about what a good queer story is.

I was recently explaining how Chinese people depict LGBTQ+ when it’s less normalized there, as people often misunderstand China’s situation as “nothing queer can survive against the nation’s hostility,” with many people fearing that any creator who depicts anything remotely queer shall have to fear for their lives. I explained that that’s not the case; creators will often slip queer content in and many people are out on social media. I did mention how it’s a shame China is less progressive than the west on queer visibility and acceptance, and I got this comment in response:

The Comment Reads as Follows:

I just want to say thanks for the nuanced explanation since you better explained things about the current state of LGBTQ media in China than I would have the patience for. Just want to make one comment about something you said: "It 100% sucks that China isn’t as progressive as the west"

Personally I disagree with you on this statement that China isn't as progressive as the west. As a gay American who understand both Chinese and American culture, I want to say that the west isn't really progressive but they like to pretend to be progressive as a way to shame non-white countries (aka the global south). Countries like the US, Canada, Australia and even Western Europe were very anti-gay up until recently. It was only 10 to 20 years ago that gay marriage became legal in the US. Also in California we even voted to take the rights of same sex couples to marry. LGBTQ people are still heavily discriminated. Right now our politicians are discriminating against transgender people and this country fights over which bathrooms a transgender person can use. Also in the 1980s, our president didn't do anything about AIDS and HIV because Americans thought it was the gay cancer and would only kill off gay people.

Sure China is not perfect and yes China (like most of Asia) likes to pretend that LGBTQ people don't exist, but the Chinese government isn't actively persecuting LGBTQ people like what is going on in the US. China doesn't get into stupid fights over which gender can use which bathroom. Even the Chinese supreme court recently passed a ruling saying that transgender people should be ensured of equal rights as everyone else. Honestly as a gay person, I rather be in China and than live in the US right now (and I live in a supposedly progressive state that likes gay people).

Whether you agree with what they said or not, they have a point. It’s all a matter of perspective. The west has its own way of normalizing the LGBTQ+ right now via representation in media and, in that same vein, Asia also has its own way of normalizing the LGBTQ+ via representation in media.

And as mentioned previously, it’s not like Asian queer media is only fetishistic, even if it can contain sex, and that sex may be depicted in a way that is meant to be erotic. For example, you guys have seen me cry about Erha he ta de bai mao shizun (Dumb Husky and His White Cat Shizun) twice now on my blog and even more on my Twitter and my Tumblr, and I don’t just love it because it contains sexual content. I mean, don’t get me wrong—in my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying sex, and I’m saying that as a sex-repulsed asexual! I just mean that there’s also depth and nuance to the text that I enjoy along with it having erotic material. This is why you see many people mentioning that they enjoy danmei and baihe for its complex characters and detailed plots.

These stories are nonetheless incredibly engaging, and technically they’re doing good by having believable characters with a lot of depth who also happen to fall for someone of the same gender (so that it’s not just content that says, “Here is guy A and guy B. They are hot and they are fucking”).

Before being colonized, China was a lot more lax toward the concept of gay couples than China is now, which is—unfortunately—a result of colonization, westernization, and China’s own historical trajectory during the 20th century. So given the fact I know middle-aged Chinese people who now find it weird that Chinese boys wear make-up, grow long hair, and care about fashion or find it weird that gay relationships are a thing despite these things all once being normal in Chinese culture, I find it hopeful that China continues having a way to engage with queer identity through these boys’ love stories even with the government’s censorship. This can also apply for numerous Asian countries and how they engage with their own boys’ love!

That’s why, as someone who is Asian and identifies as queer, I for one am glad such stories exist, even if they’re not always as pure as people in the west may want. They serve their own purposes and have their own audiences, and it doesn’t make them lesser than western queer stories. Like…there’s nothing wrong with the type of simple, innocent, coming-of-age queer story that Heartstopper tries to be. I don’t even care about seeing sex in a queer story (I often actually get uncomfortable with sex scenes). But if a work does contain gay sex, it doesn’t necessarily make it bad.

There’s been a recent obsession in the west with having good, wholesome content that rubs me the wrong way. In some ways, I understand it, considering that throughout history, queer people have struggled to be labelled as anything but problematic and wrong, and people now don’t want to indulge in anything that can be morally or ethically wrong (especially now with cancel culture, a modern trend that can contain both good and bad consequences). But even with that being said, you can’t expect fiction to always be wholesome. That’s not what fiction is.

Fiction is meant to explore and to make people think, and it is a way to express oneself in a way that is removed from reality. You could be into arguably “depraved” content in fiction, but it won’t necessarily make you a bad person, and it’s technically actually a good thing that people can explore darker themes in fiction without hurting anyone in reality. Of course, there will be people who take things too far even with fiction, and we can’t deny that. But we also cannot police things to always be morally pure.

Not only is that unsustainable, it just isn’t fair. In many ways, we see young queers now holding queer creators and queer content up to impossible standards of moral purity, where if the work “slips up” in the audiences’ eyes, the creators will be aggressively torn down and harassed, which is not behaviour we should be condoning, especially when it comes to vulnerable individuals and not corporations or truly horrible, powerful people (yes, it’s a slippery slope, and yes, I can’t fit all the nuances of this into a single blog entry, but you should be able to get what I’m trying to say).

Anyway, this whole recent obsession with moral purity in the west is indicative of an age-old obsession in the west with having content that can be deemed wholesome and good, which has been used against queer people throughout history. I mean, I studied film studies in university, and it’s important to remember things such as the Production Code and other forms of people trying to police what other people create. And that’s the thing—this policing is reminiscent of censorship, and with the way people in the west always cry about Chinese censorship, I was under the impression that censorship was a bad thing (*sarcasm*).

So yeah. I get why Oseman thought she should write her comment the way she did; she wanted to separate her work from a certain stigmatized genre that doesn’t always feel “authentically queer.” But as I’ve discussed, there are valid reasons why Asians haven’t taken kindly to her comment, as it doesn’t change the fact her comment was very dismissive of Asian queer culture and queer media.

To end this on a sweeter note though—to kind of combat this stigma, but mostly just to celebrate Pride—I’ll share some thoughts on why applying western perspectives to Chinese (and Asian, for that matter) queer content isn’t very fair next week—and then maybe the week after that, I’ll talk more about danmei, since the post for next week focuses more on queer subtext in Chinese donghua and manhua (which are more censored and do not always set out to focus on queer main characters but may still include suggestions of queer characters and relationships). So yeah, see all of you then—as long as I can actually get myself to maintain a regular blogging schedule! 🙈

Promotional art for *Tianbao Fuyao Lu*, a danmei by gay author Fei Tian Ye Xiang, for Duanwu Jie a few years ago.

Chose the image above to close out since Duanwu Jie was just a couple days ago (on June 3). Happy belated Duanwu Jie, happy Pride, and happy June, everyone! 🥰